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This is the blog for professional photographers, and those who aspire to be. Our aim is to help professional photographers build long-term, sustainable careers.
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Last week I wrote about the latest David Jay hate war, and said that if a courtroom attorney asked whether I agreed with his Shoot and Share strategy - and demanded a Yes-No answer - I’d have to say, “Yes I do.”
Why? Because social sharing is a reality whether we like it or not, because social sharing is a powerful new form of word of mouth, and because Shoot & Share is a big step up the social scale from Shoot & Burn. Also I don't like hate wars.
But this is not a TV courtroom drama, so if you're thinking of building a career in social photography, we believe the typical Shoot and Share model is bad for business.
Why? In a word, no differentiation. Here's what I mean...
According to David there's a big shift happening in the photo industry, away from selling products and towards selling services.
In reality it's a shift towards selling digital files, not services, and it's the way cheap wedding photography has been sold for quite a few years now. I agree that "sharing" (online) is better than "burning" (to DVD or a thumb drive), but it's not enough to build your career on, as we'll see...
To support his Shoot and Share argument, David says what's happening in photography is simply a reflection of what's happened in the music industry.
But in fact the music industry is a completely different business model to social photography, and it's important to understand why.
A musician records a track or album once, but hopes to sell it many times to many customers. Same with writers, print makers, game developers and many more creatives.
You, on the other hand, have one customer per event, or maybe a few - the bride, couple, mother, family in your viewfinder.
One of the big changes in the music and publishing industries has been the loss of power by the publishers, and the rise of the long tail. In the old days musicians and writers had to be picked by a publisher. Nowadays they can market and sell for themselves.
Of course you've always had to do that, but again, selling wedding photos is never going to make you Amanda F Palmer or the Fifty Shades of Grey phenomenon. It's a different business.
You're like a painter not a pop star. You need high sales per customer to thrive.
§
According to David, Shoot & Sharers make their money through the creative services they provide as artists, rather than the hard sell of products. "Essentially Shoot & Share photographers make their money upfront instead of through backend sales." That sounds uplifting, but is simply not believable. What really happens is that Shooters and Sharers pretty much give away "back-end sales". Like the Shoot and Burners (who don't even share) they have nothing to offer but their digital files. With zero room to differentiate, they're not artists, they're price takers. Just like back in the day when low budget "professionals" handed over their negatives. That's unfair, according to David. Shoot & Sharers provide a complete service and beautiful products to their clients, they just aren't dependent on selling products. Yeah, sure! Take a look around a few Shoot and Share sites and see what you think. And didn't he say there's a "big shift" away from selling products?§
According to David, Shoot & Sharers are making it difficult for other photographers to justify charging massive markups on prints and other products. That I do believe! We have always said it's counterproductive to sell products at unjustifiable markups. How to sell and how much for has been a constant debate throughout our forty years in this business. We have people who sell prints on Workspace at crazy low prices. They struggle to make any revenue. We have people who sell prints on Workspace for crazy high prices. They struggle to make any sales! There's a sweet spot, where you get a good return for a quality print. Dollar prints are an insult, especially since you only get half the money! Workspace has taught us in no uncertain terms that it takes big volumes to make money on small value sales. Shoot and Share, and Dollar Prints, are a tasty business model for David, for WHCC and for the freight companies, but not for you. The big guys do huge numbers, you don't.§
There's nothing wrong with low price, easy-as photography business if that's what you want. Sure, other photographers will think you sell your art too cheaply, but that's not your problem. What I am saying is that if your goal is a serious long term business to support your family, your lifestyle and your retirement, it's not sustainable. People who "sell their art too cheap" will always be with us. Thousands of them join the industry every year, and just as many leave. Your focus always has to be on how to beat them, not join them. The challenge may be intense but it's not new. Here's to the 3 percent. There's still plenty of room at the top. Cheers Ian Here are two more posts on a similar theme.Stephen Baugh
on
August 26, 2013, 7:40 am
said:
I'm going to write a blog post on this soon. But here is my 30 sec view.
First of all Selling is a dance, mostly art but part since. A photography has to do what is comfortable and nothing is absolute. But if you don't dance, you don't get the wonderful feeling and benefits of dancing.
I've been wondering if photographers should start with a question. "Hey, I want/need to get paid and there is a certain amount i need to earn. Do you want me to take the risk by charging you a little up front (and more for products) or do you want yo take the risk and I'll charge you more up front and less at the end for products. The files are available for option 2
If I look at the shopping cart sales on workspace. Photographers who sell images (file or paper print) for $10-30 make the bulk of our orders. We see orders from $2-$1000. People who sell for $1-2 have more orders but have less revenue. Those that sell a 10x8 for $100-150 sell almost nothing. No one sells anything if they only upload images and don't get people to the site. You need to get your clients to share your images.
Private collection kill virality.
Reply
Ian Baugh
on
August 20, 2013, 9:55 am
said:
Hey thank you Andy. Do let us know if you have any issues, and your ideas for improvements.
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Stephen Baugh
on
August 26, 2013, 7:42 am
said:
See my response below. I don't agree in principal, but would love to discuss specifics. Certainly if it is true, it will only be a short term problem for Workspace and would love to work with you on making the viral part better if you have ideas. This is good for all of us.
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davidmedinaphotography
on
August 26, 2013, 4:31 am
said:
Ian, I being in the USA will I have the same cost issue for prints sent from QB to my clients in the USA?
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Stephen Baugh
on
August 26, 2013, 7:57 am
said:
LOL You learn something new every day. I've never heard of that called Masonry style before, but we have had lots of requests for our story boards to be more "Pinterest Like".
About 6 months ago we did some experimenting and wrote the code for this but ironically iframes that carry the story board aren't easily shared to Pinterest. We therefore decided we need to do the Blogging interface first. Not sure exactly when it will be released but you should see this soon.
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Jeremy Chou Photography
on
August 20, 2013, 6:12 am
said:
great article, very well written. I've never agreed with the Shoot-And-Share model. Although David Jay is a genius at marketing to the newcomers, this business model will destroy their careers within a few years.
What I have a problem with, is that essentially he's telling the newcomers "hey, if you don't like to sell (and who does?? we are artists!), use my PASS gallery to share all your photos and you will start booking all these weddings at the price you want!" Which can't possibly be further from the truth!!
Sharing images is one thing, but without a robust and sustainable business plan, all these new photographers will simply burn out within a few short years. At that point, DJ has made his money, and move onto more newcomers. Like I said, GENIUS.
Even the pricing structure for PASS is geared towards those who maybe shoot 5 to 10 weddings a year. At $29 an event, the annual cost will be around $150 to $300. That's great. But if you are a full time photographer and does about 30-40 weddings a year, that number skyrocket to $900 to $1200 a year, JUST FOR SHARING PHOTOS! There are so many cheaper and better alternatives out there!
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Stephen Baugh
on
August 26, 2013, 7:15 am
said:
No. We print all our current shopping cart products with Bay Photo in the USA. For the Queensberry Print Products which will be optionally available soon the freight is substantially subsidised so the final cost is $5 up to $18 for large frames. Like all our products we try to take the issue of geography out of the equation. :-)
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Stephen Baugh
on
August 26, 2013, 7:20 am
said:
Wow you're up late David. Thank you for all your posts today. :-)
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davidmedinaphotography
on
August 26, 2013, 4:12 am
said:
Jeremy, I disagree. That is NOT what David jay is saying at all.
What he is saying is that instead of focusing in print sales for small prints from a wedding from what is essentially a proof, to concentrate in providing a great service and other products.
By Pass providing a way that allow your client to socially sharing their images it provides a viral marketing tool by your happy clients that can and often turns into wedding bookings.
So stand to reason that instead of focusing in selling a few prints to instead focusing in getting book that provide a greater source of income.
That, my friend is what David jay is suggesting. And the idea is neither his not new. About any modern marketing guru will tell you the same thing.
For me the danger of the Shoot and Share model is not Pass. Pass is just a delivery method just like DVD or memory sticks are. The danger reside in newcomers not learning solid business principles and merely replacing the shoot and burn with Pass and then call that Shoot and Share.
At the time Pass came out there weren't any viable alternatives that provided or provide some of the Pass features, like the Social sharing. Pass social share is very different to what every other solution offer.
Bottom line, to use or not to use Pass is a business decision. If Pass only function was to share images like every other gallery I would agree with you. But it is not, at least not for the moment. Would you not be willing to pay more for any system that allow you to book more weddings? That is what many Pass users see and get.
Is Pass perfect? No. I would like to see somethings changed. But I have search long and hard, spent money on other system and I still yet to find what I get from Pass.
Now, what I hate and will not stand for is to some one come and say that I am a fool or have been brainwashed just because I think the way I do. My decision is based in solid business and marketing principles after much thought.
Reply
davidmedinaphotography
on
August 26, 2013, 7:18 am
said:
Thanks Stephen.
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Andy Brown
on
August 20, 2013, 9:18 am
said:
I used PASS for a while, and have recently shifted my galleries to Workspace. PASS have a beautiful gallery and nice interface but that's about where the real features end for a kiwi photographer. Shipping a single 6x4" print was going to be about $45USD to get back over here. And I agree, the per event pricing was starting to burn. With a busy season coming up, I'm stoked I've made the change!
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David
on
August 21, 2013, 2:16 am
said:
Great response. Give shootproof.com a try. Total control with the look of PASS.
Reply
davidmedinaphotography
on
August 26, 2013, 3:59 am
said:
Very interesting and insightful series of articles in the Shoot & Share model. Finally it is discussed as it should be, in a respectful and thoughtful way.
For many, Shoot and share is just a new modality of shoot and burn. A model that only works IF priced correctly. The problem, as you and James Yeats Brown well point out, it is use mainly to offer inexpensive photography.
I have tried and used Pass mainly because of its beautiful interface and to use as an extra benefit for my clients enabling them to quickly download their images.
I would love for you to share your thoughts on the following:
My concern about this whole debate about what to charge for online prints has been two. You mentioned the first when you discussed the difference between the music industry model and our: we have mainly one or two customers for our photos and the other derives from the fact that what we load online is proof quality images and for the most part, and with few exceptions, are what I call professional snapshots from the ceremony and reception.
To me it is very hard to price those images high, specially when the clients are downloading or receiving those same proofs for them to print.
Selling high priced proofs may have worked well in the film days when we held the film hostage from the clients and they had no choice but to buy from us. But not today.
So my conclusion has been that limit my selling of prints from my online proofs to 4x6, 5x7 or 8x10 for a very affordable prices. After all is not like we are going to sell volume.
I rather focus on creating storytelling heirloom albums for my clients and any possible print sales for large, final, artistically enhance, wall art.
I do agree with what has been said that those photographers that focus in creating photographic art for their clients will continue to do well.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Any food for thought that you could share will be very welcome.
Thanks
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Stephen Baugh
on
August 26, 2013, 7:30 am
said:
In Workspace you can do that, there is a share single image to Facebook option.
We're also releasing this week (or early next depending on testing) the ability to either blog on workspace or blog Workspace to Wordpress or Blogger. Making it super fast to share collections to your blog.
In that release there will also be the ability to do SEO friendly urls, multiple domains on one account, maintain your domain through workspace (if purchased) and url redirection.
Finally you probably saw in recent months that mobile slideshows were upgraded so they will allow installing on iPhones as aps. Mobile is the most viral way of sharing with younger users especially for Senior Photography. If however the user clicks on the same link from the browser they get the best experience.
Keep an eye out in coming months for an updated "client website" (photographers client) that will take the client interaction and virility full circle.
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Ian Baugh
on
August 24, 2013, 9:50 am
said:
Hi James, great to hear from you! I've emailed you.
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Ian Baugh
on
August 20, 2013, 8:27 am
said:
Yes, like Workspace starting at ten bucks a month. Thank you Jeremy, music to my ears.
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davidmedinaphotography
on
August 26, 2013, 7:39 am
said:
Cool! I'll be looking out for that.
The thing I like the most of what pass offers is the masonry style galleries. I see more companies adopting that type of image presentation. Pictage and Smugmug are using it as well.
I think the competitive edge that pass once had is weakening fast.
Thanks again.
Reply
James Yeats-Brown
on
August 23, 2013, 11:17 am
said:
Dear Ian
As ever, an impassioned and thought provoking argument. I have been trying to get my head round putting more emphasis on charging for time as opposed to leveraging product for a while now so I have followed this debate with interest. After all, most photography outside the social sector is conducted on a fee or commission basis where the photographer is paid for his or her time (and skill) to produce images appropriate for a particular use. This is a tried and tested model, it’s how the provision of most services happens, why not embrace it more in the social market?
So, while not being a big wedding photographer and doing a fair bit of commissioned work, I can definitely see the attraction David Jay’s proposition has for all sorts of people. The big caveat of course is that the upfront fee must be sufficiently worthwhile and on this, unsurprisingly, proponents of Shoot & Share seem to be a little coy. Nevertheless I think it’s a bit unfair to shoot down the concept of making money upfront as “simply not believable”. It’s the only way I get to cover some of the events I do and get paid well for it - and books and albums still remain an option.
It is suggested that Shoot & Sharers are making it difficult for other photographers to justify massive markups on prints and products. Well, yes and no. There has always been a market for the dollar print and those in it are welcome to it. And as far as I can see this is where the whole PASS system falls flat on its face compared to more professional offerings such as Workspace and SmugMug, which allow photographers to conduct their businesses with a degree of autonomy, particularly in the all important pricing.
No, the real game changers who are putting pressure on product prices in the social market are the likes of Apple, Blurb and here in the UK, Photobox. They and others like them all have in common the ability to reach large numbers of informed, aspirational, often very creative people (ie our clients) and empower them sufficiently to challenge photographers’ offerings. And the public gets ever more discerning, a point not lost on Queensberry, as Queensberry Print itself opens its doors and products to the consumer market.
So where to go? Image creators, editors, story-tellers, designers, communicators - these are what photographers of all kinds have to be now and we need to charge for it. Tempting as it may look, this is where the Shoot & Share philosophy for me suddenly falls down because if our clients are sophisticated enough to place real value on these virtues in the first place they’re going to expect something more meaningful at the end of the day than a free download and a $1 Dollar print. That’s below the standard they’ve come to expect even from Apple, Blurb, Photobox et al.
Reply
PaulMartin1981
on
August 20, 2013, 10:50 am
said:
"Shoot and share your money" is what I call it.
Joking aside, my next challenge is to actually incorporate sharing features. Have tried PASS and shown future brides and naturally they love it. And I love the marketing opportunities via exposure. But (and there is a BIG but)... PASS seems to be reluctant to tweak its model to assist product photographers - I mean they wont even allow you to set your own prices for prints. They seem to market the product in a way that makes product photographers seem greedy in marking up prints even seeing one post on fb for a pro PASS user calling product photographers "hoarders" which could be a reflection on how shoot and sharers are viewing product photographers? It's also aimed at the less educated photographers (Not literally referring to education or creativity/skill but I mean that in terms of business experience knowing what it takes to be in and stay in business to pay the bills, mortgage, build for the future etc)
Im extremely willing to use shoot and share but only to compliment my existing model and product range (including my lovely Queensberry's), not to replace it.
Customers are getting really demanding when it comes to files this expectation of "files should be included" (quoted from a bride and groom who came in to see me for a consultation the other day) is going to be further enhanced with the shoot and share model becoming more popular.
Could we open a private discussion on fb in a closed group so we can discuss ways of moving forward integrating product and shoot/share models successfully?
I would like to look at this issue as an opportunity not a problem.
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